betwixted
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Posts posted by betwixted
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13 minutes ago, Pokestardragacraft said:
We already have a post for talons here:
Was not aware of that post, thanks for informing me.
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38 minutes ago, Kiki said:
I think these are great ideas! Though it is suggested to put one idea per post, so try to make two different posts for these great ideas!
Thanks! I put them in the same post together because they both have to deal with hind legs, but noted for next time.
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Out of all the genes, hind legs offer the least amount of variety. You only have three genes, normal hind legs, webbed hind legs, or Bearyena hind legs, and don't offer much if you have wings. I feel like there's a great opportunity here to get some more diversity in hind leg genes and to make them more useful for winged Nichelings, so I came up with two ideas for new hind legs, both of which give different abilities depending upon if a Nicheling is winged or not.
TALON HIND LEGS
If winged...
- +4 fishing
- +1 strength
- +1 swimming
If not winged...
- +1 speed
- +1 swimming
- +1 strength
Talon hind legs are meant to make fishing builds for winged Nichelings more viable. Currently, the only way to get fishing with winged Nichelings is if you have fishing tail, which only gives +2 fishing. Catching razorinas or clown kois with only +2 fishing is hard, so talon hind legs give +4 fishing so you can catch all fish. The +1 swimming is so you can still traverse water, and the +1 strength comes from the fact they're talons. On non-winged Nichelings, they act similar to Bearyena hind legs, giving +1 speed, +1 swimming, and +1 strength.
GRASPING HIND LEGS
talons.png
If winged...
- +4 collecting
- +1 swimming
If not winged...
- +1 speed
- +1 swimming
- +climbing
Currently, the only to collect with wings is with beak, which only has +1 collecting--not incredibly efficient. Grasping hind legs would offer winged Nichelings a more efficient way of collecting, acting like a double pair of nimble fingers and giving +4 collecting. The +1 swimming is so you can still traverse water. Meanwhile, on non-winged Nichelings, they'd offer +1 speed, +1 swimming, and +climbing. Climbing would be a new stat that gives them the ability to go into trees, even if they aren't winged.
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I agree. Minus player interaction that may give Nichelings sapient qualities (i.e. a player making a Nicheling not do anything for a turn to mourn for the dead, cooperative hunting, etc.), there are some behaviors Nichelings instinctively know how to do that points to this.
They can
- Form large social groups and
- Store large amounts of food to benefit all tribe members even without a seasonal cycle
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Tame baby Bearyenas (I'm sure a non-player tribe has this same knowledge)
On each of their own, these behaviors not indicate sapience, as several animals display them. However, when put together, they can indicate some semblance of sapience. For example, mammals that often live together in social groups need to be smarter than your average bear to remember their social status, their role/duty, and relationships they have with species in the group. Storing food can also be an indicator, as it shows they know storing food has its advantages even when they don't have the risk of other people stealing the food in their storage or have to go through a long period without food be accessible.
Finally, there's taming Bearyenas. I italicized that because I believe that's one of the strongest indicators of sapience. While taming can observed in other animals, such as ants taming aphids to farm them, few, if only one, species of mammal that tame other species for a select purpose, that of course being humans. Nichelings also display the ability to tame in game. Taming animals requires knowing the advantages of taming, learning how to tame, and what they can do with the tamed animal; in essence, a large amount of brain power is needed to tame an animal.
In the Nicheling's case, they probably know how to tame Bearyenas through observation rather than instinct, like ants. What type of animal would want to tame something that eats them, anyways? Anyways, they understand the advantages of having a predator on their side: protection from other predators, a hunting partner, and finally, mate.
All in all, that's why I agree, that Nichelings do display some degree of sapience.
- Form large social groups and
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These are some great ideas!
I also had a few ideas about wings...
There'd be different genes for different types of wings, with different advantages and disadvantages.
e.g.,
normal feathered wings (+2 movement, -1 stealth)
Owl wings (+1 movement, +2 stealth)
bat wings (no feathers) +2 movement
gliding membrane (+2 movement, uses 1 energy)
etc.
Thanks!
I really like your ideas! Since I've drawn all the other one's you've mentioned, I think I'll draw Owl Wings next. They sound really interesting. Maybe if hunting from the air is implemented, then they could give the buff +Silent, where they won't be heard by prey.
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OMG THE HUMMINGBIRRRDS!!! YES!!!
I think out of all the concept art I've done, these guys are my favorite!
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I don't mean to necropost, but I just got around to making some new art for hummingbird wings and related genes!
*Note: The normal sized Nicheling has these traits: Medium Body, x2 Runner Legs, Hind Legs, Short Snout, Medium Tail.
[glow=cyan,2,300]See the main post for the new genes + stats![/glow]
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What makes flying unrealistic? It would still be limited to so many tiles (maybe the formula could be twice or three times what said creature can walk), take up vital action slots and can easily come with its own risks or downsides. Perhaps, similar to the Pokemon games, flying would need to use all three action slots (taking off, flying, and landing again) where only the flying action gives creatures immunity to attack. I imagine, if it were me playing, those two things alone would make me think carefully about performing a fly. Also, if you accidentally fly short of your target or there aren't enough tiles to perform a clean landing (let's say 2 tiles are needed) your creature crashes and loses some health and bleeds. In other words I think there are plenty of ways flying could be implemented without feeling cheaty. Just my two cents though.
I meant flight being unrealistic in the sense of "this not something that just happens in a couple generations with one or two mutations". True, Niche has very simplified evolution, but even soit just wouldn't be feasable to have one generation doesnt't have anthing resembling wings and then the next one has mastered flight.
If there was an intermediary, where they have have simple gliding that only works from an elevated position, it would be make much more sense.
Look at birds for example, or bats. The entire body has to be changed to allow true flight. Airspace could be compared to another biome with completely different climate in how much has to be changed on a lifeform in order to get there.
On your point about not making it feel cheaty: Using all three, or even just two action slots sounds good, and for true flight from the groudn there could be also be food used up? Due to how much energy it takes.
For an intermediary stage, maybe something similar to Water Body as it functioned back in update 0.5.3. may work. In order to get Water Body, you first needed a water-related gene, such as swimming tail, webbed paw, or webbed hind legs. The same might apply to wings then, where you need Gliding Body or some other flying related genes before getting wings. However, people may get annoyed at this. I believe that's why they removed it with Water Body.
Using three action slots sounds like a good compromise, but maybe using 2 would fit so juveniles could fly as well. As for food, maybe 2 pieces of food should be eaten per Nicheling, since flying is a very energy demanding activity.
I can see more mechanical uses for flying besides moving. Maybe you can glide in the air like a blue bird and have access to new sources of food, such as skim feeding from the water's surface (platypus bill could be used for this so it's a more useful gene) or catching flying animals/animals on the ground like Rabbils. Not sure how'd it work mechanically yet, but they're some ideas.
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That is some amazing concept art!
Personally, I don't think there should be "real" flight. It's not really realistic that they would take flight just like that. Perhaps adding gliding as either the only kind of flight or some kind of "stage" towards actual flying? Here is a suggestion on how gliding could be implemented:
A trait that would give the critters rudimentary wings to "glide" with (that is, move very far at once) from an elevated position. Perhaps +1 movement from a tree stump? If another trait, the climbing paw, tail or leg, is added, perhaps the creature could climb trees, where it can get a +3 movement boost and be safe from bearyenas, who can't climb.(originally from my now-retracted gliding suggestion.)
Thank you!
That's actually exactly how I imagine Gliding Body would work. In fact, all of the traits you've listed like the climbing the Nicheling pictured with Gliding Body has. I've made in-depth trait break-downs for all of the Nichelings pictured in Steam. I'll add links in the main post. Here it is for Gliding Body: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1133331609
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I know this has already suggested and that wings will be implemented later on, but I'm just so excited for the possibilities of wings and flight! I've even drawn some illustrations of Nichelings with wings to help visualize my ideas, as well as give a breakdown of all the flying related genes for each.
For how it would work in-game, if the wings are made into arms, each wing would give +1 Flight. You would need +2 Flight in order to fly; so thus, you'd need both arms to be wings in order to fly. If the wings are a body, then maybe just +Flight is given. Depending upon the wing, it could also give an extra stat, i.e. Bat Wings giving +1 Collecting, or Pterosaur Wings giving +1 Movement. +Aerodynamic would also be needed to fly.
I'm not sure how flight will work mechanically, if it'll be like another type of movement (i.e. Walking, Swimming) and you can travel X amount of tiles (but much longer distance than either walking or swimming), or if it'll be something different. Whatever the case, there's still many possible wing and flying related genes you could have! All of these ideas are just examples of what wings could potentially be like.
For example, you could have...
Gliding Body! Not enabling for true flight, but allowing for gliding when jumping off of high tiles/trees!
Stats:
- Gliding Body - +Gliding (Glide for 4 tiles or farther when at the top of a tree or tree stump.)
- Prehensile Tail - +Climbing (Able to climb up trees.)
OR...
Bat-like Wings, allowing for true flight, maybe short distance only
Stats:
- Bat Wing - +1 Flight per Wing, +1 Collecting per wing
- Aerodynamic horns - +1 Strength, +Aerodynamic (The only horns you can fly with unless more variations are added.)
OR...
Pterosaur-like Wings, allowing for true flight, maybe long distance
Stats:
- Pterosaur Wing(arms) - +1 Flight per Wing, +1 Walking Speed per wing
- Crow beak: +1 Smelling, +1 Cracking, +1 Strength
- Aerodynamic horns - +1 Strength, +Aerodynamic
OR...
Walking-On Wings, which enable the hindlegs to be used as paws
Stats:
- Stilt wings (arms) - IF ONLY ONE WING PRESENT: +1 Walking Speed per Wing
IF BOTH WINGS PRESENT: +1 Flight per Wing, +1 Walking Speed per Wing, +1 Swimming per Wing, +Off the Ground (A Nicheling needs +2 Flight in order to fly (so two wings), and +2 Off the Ground in order to have their hindlegs off the ground to become graspers.) - Aerodynamic Snout - +3 Smelling, +Aerodynamic
- Nimble Hindlegs: IF OFF THE GROUND, THEN: +3 Collecting; IF NOT OFF THE GROUND, THEN: +2 Speed, +1 Swimming
OR...
Traditional add a third pair of limbs on the back route: Dragon Wing Body, "Feathered" Wing Body (feathers are actually modified fur), and/or "Feathered" Dragon Wing Body, all allowing for true flight!
Stats:
- Dragon Wing Body - Flight
- Feathered Wing Body - Flight
- Feathered Dragon Wing Body - Flight
(All genes give the ability of flight, they're just different cosmetically)
OR...
Hummingbird wings, allowing for hovering in the air and drinking nectar!
Stats:
- Hummingbird Wing - +1 Flight per Wing, +Hover, +1 Hover Speed per Wing
(Hover is only active when both wing genes are present. Hover works as a new form of locotion, allowing Nichelings to move across tiles (like walking/swimming). Wings will only work if Petite Body, Small Hind Legs, and Hummingbird tail are present.) - Petite Body - +Petite, +Iridescent, +3 Scentless, +3 Stealth, +1 Heat Reistant
(Petite makes a Nicheling look very small and scales down genes to size. Also makes Nichelings weaker to attacks, so they will take an extra day's worth of damage. Does not stack with normal damage. Iridescent makes a Nicheling look shiny. - Hummingbird Beak - +3 Nectar Feeding, +3 Smell
(Allows Nicheling to collect +3 food in the form of nectar per gem used.) - Small Hind Legs - +1 Speed, +1 Swimming
(Will act as a crippled verison of Hind Legs when not on Hummingbird Nicheling.) - Hummingbird Tail - +Aerodynamic, +1 or 2 Hover Speed
(Gives Aerodynamic to let a Nicheling fly, as well as either 1 or 2 Hover Speed. (I'm leaning towards +2).)
There's so many more possibilities, like insect wings, owl wings, albatross wings, etc! I just wanted to put out a few ideas of the ideas I had. I hope you enjoy them!
All of these artworks plus a more in depth description can be on my Steam:
- Gliding Body Break-down: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1133331609
- Bat-like Wings Break-down: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139661945
- Pterosaur-like Wings Break-down: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1144388206
- Walking on Wings Break-down: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1145279934
- Third Pair of Limbs Break-down: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1191179878
- Hummingbird Wings:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1216282557
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- Gliding Body - +Gliding (Glide for 4 tiles or farther when at the top of a tree or tree stump.)
Art Requests (CLOSED FOR NOW)
in Fanart
Posted
May I request a fan favorite, Zebere?
She's shorter than a typical lean body Nicheling, has a claw-like scar across the middle of her forehead, and lots of tiny scars from scratches on her trunk and nimble fingers. She also has a short pony tail in the back.
Originally from an ill prepared mountainous tribe that migrated to the savannas and perished, she managed to barely escape the infernos. She swam until she came to another island where she met friends, but after mysterious circumstances, was lost at sea for one year. She returned to another island where her friends had migrated to much to their surprise, and lives happily with them now and trying to court Yanwu, her current crush.
She's a small, lovable bundle of anxiety and very kind. She's somewhat introverted, preferring to keep with those she's familiar with. She's also quite the hopeless romantic, trying her hardest to pursue other females, but due to her shyness and inability to open up, things tend to happen romantically at a much slower pace.