Sumo Pusher-Counter Strategy Discussion

[Eldrad]

The "Several breeds of drone" guide mentions carriers as a counter to pushers with the justification that they can confuse the pusher's sensors. However pushers can use a pair of directional sensors attached to the ends of it's contact surface to detect whether the enemy core is in a triangle in front of them which can't be confused by detached units. It is still possible for a carrier to overwhelm the pusher but that's generally unlikely given the reduction in parts count of the non-core drones (and if there's more than one of them the possibility that they don't work in perfect coordination).

A ram of similar quality as the pusher will clearly beat it as it replaces logic and sensors with more engines and therefore wins the shoving match, but that's not very interesting and it would lose many other matches.

Is there a category of drones which if well made would consistently beat a well made pusher (other than pushers or rams)? I could imagine something which stays some distance from the edge and uses jump thrusters to dodge at a right angle from on coming targets, but I haven't made one. Do people think that would work? Is there something else?

[Markus]

I haven't put to much thought or experiments in it yet, but I one wanted to make detachable drones which stick to pushers from the side and use side-force to bring them out from their intended motion vector. So this strategy might work against them if your main-part can evade the initial push. Just thinking aloud here, not yet tested  

[Eldrad]

Detecting side vs front/back is pretty hard (though you might be able to do it using your core's direction vs opponent's core). But even if you're consistently pushing them off course there is still a high risk they'll end up with your core in their sights at some point.

[Eldrad]

Ooo, actually a magnetic wrap style which attaches to the opponent then intelligently spins to keep your core at a particular (not-straight on) angle actually might work well. Just watched a fight that gave me that idea.

[Eldrad]

It's not very good but is a reasonable proof of concept. Not sure I have time to make it work consistently. Think you'd need to have the magnets quickly cascade in switching from repelling to attracting. That only took 45 blocks, so there's some room to make the core into a center seeker after it's attached (or if it doesn't attach). Also could have a bit of anti-carrier precautions, though ultimately this design will have a lot problems with carriers/shields.

[Eldrad]

That's attempting to stick your core to any surface of the opponent which is not the front.

[Markus]

Awesome design! I would love to see such drone fight all it's way to the top spot  

[jbox1]

On 10/8/2018 at 7:47 AM, Eldrad said:

It's not very good but is a reasonable proof of concept. Not sure I have time to make it work consistently. Think you'd need to have the magnets quickly cascade in switching from repelling to attracting. That only took 45 blocks, so there's some room to make the core into a center seeker after it's attached (or if it doesn't attach). Also could have a bit of anti-carrier precautions, though ultimately this design will have a lot problems with carriers/shields.

Might have some trouble verses a pure rammer build (like salt levels rising). This guy uses jump thrusters which provide damage over sustainability, while salt levels uses exclusively thrusters, and may give your build some trouble.

[Eldrad]

I never got that thing to work... but how would something like Salt Levels Rising handle an enemy core stuck to its side rear? Wouldn't it just spin in a circle with its core tracing a larger circle and the thing stuck to it tracing a smaller one?

Also D.Mentia seems to have come up with a solid counter to that style of pusher by having a spinning drone with a series of flexible parts sticking out (springs/hinges). Tends to both do a lot of damage and generally prevent the pusher from being able to look straight at the core.

[StumpytheOzzie]

My spinner works 85% against rammers.

 

The rammers usually come in hard. My spring loaded "whacker" modules spin clockwise. Any rammers come at me get pushed down. Usually they run straight out of the ring.

Its the pulse rammers and the slow ones that detect cores - then boost - that give me trouble.

 

This one is an older model, but still has some success against the rammers with two directional sensors. If they have edge-detection it becomes very difficult to beat them.

 

[jbox1]

18 minutes ago, StumpytheOzzie said:

My spinner works 85% against rammers.

 

The rammers usually come in hard. My spring loaded "whacker" modules spin clockwise. Any rammers come at me get pushed down. Usually they run straight out of the ring.

Its the pulse rammers and the slow ones that detect cores - then boost - that give me trouble.

 

This one is an older model, but still has some success against the rammers with two directional sensors. If they have edge-detection it becomes very difficult to beat them.

 

I hate spinners...

[StumpytheOzzie]

So do I...

 

But they are effective.