Jump to content
Stray Fawn Community
Niche fan

Alpha stuff

Recommended Posts

In the wild there is only 1 alpha pair, so only 1 male and 1 female can be safe from starvation, I also think once chosen they should stay alpha like when you choose your genes. Once you hit the check mark its locked. You can't choose a second alpha until the first alpha has died, but not having to wait for both to die. If the male dies pick a new male and if the female dies pick a new female.

 

Also thought something to help notice the alpha would be cool. Either a crown, cape, or scepter. You could choose gold or silver for the crown and scepter but the cape could be any color.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a cute idea, but I don't think it fits what Niche is about. The Alpha/Beta/Omega system isn't there to denote rank, it's there to determine who eats first when there's not enough food for everyone. If you want to, you can play with this system you've suggested, by manually only having two Alphas, not changing their rank, and only picking a new one if the last one died, but I think implementing this suggestion would limit the gameplay rather than open up new possibilities, and why take away that freedom if you can just do what you've suggested by using self-imposed limitations?

And I don't want to be rude, but a scepter/crown/cape for a Nicheling would be very immersion-breaking. These are animals, they don't have clothing or jewelry the way humans do. As far as I know, there aren't even any humans in the world of Niche, so where would our creatures get the metal and fabric from? Is your justification for this idea "just because it looks cool"? Sadly, that's not enough. Things do have to make sense. And if you want, you could breed a line of Alphas with specific traits, such as Mask in colours and shapes that make the Nicheling look like they're wearing a cape, or ramhorns of a specific colour you can treat as a crown. Again; there's no need to change the game, you can use what's already there in the way you want for your tribe.

Or just use the different gem colours to mark a Nicheling's rank, that's one of the things they're there for, after all.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do like this idea, but the alpha beta omega system is used in so many different ways that making only really work for a wolf pack would throw off a lot of challenges and playstyles. a nicheling must be an omega to be banished, and it must be banished by an alpha, so lets say if you were doing a sort of "two tribes" playthrough, banishing a nicheling in one tribe would mean you would have to send an alpha all the way over there

tl;dr : no, but maybe a customisation option for sandbox mode if the "challenges with win conditions" feature wins the voting!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, the alpha /beta social structure of wolves was debunked, if I'm not mistaken. That was from a study published in 1947 on the basis of observations of captive packs, reinforced by supplemented data on the dynamics of dominance in wild packs, but never challenged until 1999.  There's no such thing as an alpha wolf in the wild. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Lurkily said:

Also, the alpha /beta social structure of wolves was debunked, if I'm not mistaken. That was from a study published in 1947 on the basis of observations of captive packs, reinforced by supplemented data on the dynamics of dominance in wild packs, but never challenged until 1999.  There's no such thing as an alpha wolf in the wild. 

I'm pretty sure there is two 'alpha' wolves, the breeding pair. The pack consists of the breeding pair and their descendants.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh really? I didn't actually know that, that's cool! It was just the first thing that came to mind when I though of alphas and betas and omegas, so I used it as an example, but it still stands the use of the rank system ,were it to be like that, would still be very limited

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Skysplash8 said:

I'm pretty sure there is two 'alpha' wolves, the breeding pair. The pack consists of the breeding pair and their descendants.

The idea is that there is an alpha that has fought for dominance and proven itself among all the other wolves, and is deferred to by all, becoming effectively the pack's leader. This isn't what happens in the wild, and these findings were published based on study of two captive packs. The author had not studied wolves in the wild prior to publishing. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Lurkily said:

The idea is that there is an alpha that has fought for dominance and proven itself among all the other wolves, and is deferred to by all, becoming effectively the pack's leader. This isn't what happens in the wild, and these findings were published based on study of two captive packs. The author had not studied wolves in the wild prior to publishing. 

A quote from an article: 

"However, Mech explains, his studies of wild wolves have found that wolves live in families: two parents along with their younger cubs. Wolves do not have an innate sense of rank; they are not born leaders or born followers. The "alphas" are simply what we would call in any other social group "parents." The offspring follow the parents as naturally as they would in any other species. No one has "won" a role as leader of the pack; the parents may assert dominance over the offspring by virtue of being the parents.

While the captive wolf studies saw unrelated adults living together in captivity, related, rather than unrelated, wolves travel together in the wild. Younger wolves do not overthrow the "alpha" to become the leader of the pack; as wolf pups grow older, they are dispersed from their parents' packs, pair off with other dispersed wolves, have pups, and thus form packs of their owns."

Okay, might not be the most reliable source ever, but this is what I think. (source)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The original idea is from Shenkel, in the 30's and 40's, who asserted that a male and female pair dominate the society of the pack, and that they carry their rank by each, among their gender, aggressively defending their social position.  This is the 'Alpha' and 'beta' that most people believe in and was reinforced by a number of studies until not too long ago. 

This is what I'm claiming is untrue.  Recent studies (As in, the last two decades) have painted a truer picture of their social structure, but still use the same terms.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mech, whom you cite, actually wrote the 1999 study challenging Schenkel:

"The concept of the alpha wolf as a "top dog" ruling a group of similar-aged compatriots," Mech writes in the 1999 paper, "is particularly misleading." 

I'd consider him a good source.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lurkily said:

Mech, whom you cite, actually wrote the 1999 study challenging Schenkel:

"The concept of the alpha wolf as a "top dog" ruling a group of similar-aged compatriots," Mech writes in the 1999 paper, "is particularly misleading." 

I'd consider him a good source.

I mean't the article 😛 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I took a look; I wouldn't put a lot of stock in Gizmodo, but they do link to a lot of good studies and cite and link to sources; the article itself seems solid, though I didn't go through in detail.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×