Fuel Tank Assignments

[faytleingod499]

Perhaps this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it in the forum. I know there is a way to manipulate which fuel tanks get used first, but it would be nice (especially for racing) if you could assign the order that they get used. I think this would dramatically increase the variations of effective drones you could make.

[Ookami-sama]

The first tank placed is the first depleted. What makes you think that being able to pick an order would, as you put it, increase variations of effective drones?

[corona_wind]

The first tank placed is NOT the first depleted.  It often acts that way, but the rules are actually a lot more byzantine.  Controlling which tank gets depleted first means building your craft a very specific way then conducting the Fuel Tank Dance - something between a rain dance and the way bees wiggle to talk to each other - to inform your tanks which order they are supposed to tend towards.

This is very inefficient, accidental behavior;  we have no way to know what we just did without flying our craft.

A better way would open up opportunities for multistage craft which eject tanks.

[faytleingod499]

40 minutes ago, corona_wind said:

The first tank placed is NOT the first depleted.  It often acts that way, but the rules are actually a lot more byzantine.  Controlling which tank gets depleted first means building your craft a very specific way then conducting the Fuel Tank Dance - something between a rain dance and the way bees wiggle to talk to each other - to inform your tanks which order they are supposed to tend towards.

This is very inefficient, accidental behavior;  we have no way to know what we just did without flying our craft.

A better way would open up opportunities for multistage craft which eject tanks.

Precisely. Being able to make multistage drones that can eject tanks in a specific pattern would greatly enhance your speed and mobility during flight. There is a way to manipulate tanks into the order you want. But as corona_wind hilariously illustrated, it is complicated and inefficient.

[Ookami-sama]

If I may correct my previous statement: the last tank or battery to have been moved or placed in the drone workshop seems to be the last tank or battery depleted. My own experiments do not contradict this statement thus far; might I ask for an example of this problematic behaviour?

As for said experiments, conducted with batteries because it is easier (replicated in private with fuel tanks, but I am bored enough that I ask you to trust me):

Numbers on each picture represent the order of placement or movement. Which is to say: the battery that was last placed or moved is labelled "12"; the second-to-last battery to have been placed or moved is labelled "11"; etc. and down to number 1.

Experiment 1: clockwise placement, no movement. Expected result with the above-mentioned hypothesis: order of depletion is from 1 (first to deplete) to 12 (last to deplete).

Result as witnessed: consistent with hypothesis.

Experiment 2: clockwise placement as for experiment 1, then moved (actually: picked up by double-clicking, then put back with click) what was number 7, making it number 12. Expected result: depletion from 1 to 12 with updated numbers.

Result as witnessed: consistent with hypothesis.

Experiment 3: placement as numbers show. Expected result: depletion from 1 to 5.

Witnessed result: consistent with hypothesis.

Experiment 4: same placement as experiment 3, then added a battery branching from battery 1, then moved battery 2. Expected result: depletion from 1 to 6, with the new battery having been placed/moved second and the branch having been moved last.

Witnessed result: consistent with hypothesis.

As such, and until it is proven otherwise, I do believe this matter is less of an acrobatic dance and more of a simple, numbered list.

Do note that the rule is the same for distribution of power or fuel: in case of a lack of resources, devices placed/moved last will be powered last.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Ookami-sama
Science!

[corona_wind]

Tank order only applies when all tanks/batteries are an equal number of nodes away from what's using them (see " building your craft a very specific way ")   If any tank happens to be one node closer to an engine, it gets used first no matter what.  Try sticking one of those drills right on a battery.

This makes drop-tanks difficult, since the tank you're ejecting - one node further away - will probably be the last tank used!

And yes, of course it's a list.  The dance is what it takes to alter that list.

[Ookami-sama]

Following your advice, and experimenting further, I can say with relative confidence that the number of nodes between a drill and a battery has no influence on the order of depletion.

Demonstration: clockwise depletion.

Another example of clockwise, different depths for drills. Do note that battery number 4 is one node away from a drill, batteries 2 and 3 are two (through core) to four nodes away, and battery 4 is still depleted last.

After having picked up and put back battery 1, hypothesis in my previous post still gives consistent results (last moved is last depleted).

As for closer batteries being depleted first: neither.

That is, only if I want them to, and using the rule of my previous post.

There does seem, at some point, to appear some inconsistencies, in that this order suddenly becomes difficult to change. In the above example, a certain number of movements (double-clicking the drill a dozen of times, actually) made it so that I could not change the order of depletion without elaborate shenanigans. Leaving the workshop to come back seems not to change a thing, nor does restarting the game. It would seem that the position on top of the chain of small blocks is set for number 1 now, no matter what, with its children coming right after. Deleting and replacing the block chain entirely made the former number 2, on the right, absolute number 1... until I placed a newly-created battery in the exact space of the former number 1, which made it take back that place on the list permanently.

I am bewildered, but there seem to be some rules, which would be, at some point in construction, ignored, overridden or its results set in stone, and that could have to do with the way the engine stores Ctrl+Z data since it seems to happen after a few (perhaps thirty on a tiny craft) placements or movements. I do not have sufficient knowledge to make any precise assumption however. I would welcome any sort of thought or additional information you have about this, Corona, faytleingod.

Might I ask a developer, such as @Micha, for help on this topic? It strikes me as coherent until something breaks, and I would very much appreciate to know what does break. In the meantime, I support this feature request.

 

[corona_wind]

That's interesting, as it's not at all what I experienced for fuel.  I had a design where a ramjet and a fuel tank were attached to the same position indicator, and that tank got used first no matter how I danced the fuel dance.  Though in retrospect that might have been another wrong assumption on my part.

Anyway, the order right now - which tends towards outermost tanks being consumed last - makes it difficult to eject tanks.