[Projectile upgrade count 3 +shotgun & digging3 +short laser.]

What else would you call a tractor "beam" tho? theyre classics. Can always google it to learn more about it, but it makes perfect sense.

[Triangles!]

Basically I'd really like some pieces that can fit here~

Maybe tiny little batteries or fuel canisters or something... whys everything gotta be a square? I was hoping the circles would fit at least but they're apparently no different than a square really. Only thing i've seen that sorta maybe fits in these corners is the medium fuel tanks, and doing that can throw off symmetry depending on what you're doing with it.

There's plenty of other good reasons for triangles. Pretty please triangles?

[Upgrade bugs]

2 minutes ago, Lurkily said:

Because factories print parts at full charge, you can decouple and reprint a capacitor to recharge it.

 

4 minutes ago, Entity said:

It's just decoupling and printing capacitors and/or batteries with a factory when they're empty.

Hmm... I never even thought of that. Uhm, you have a file I can look at to study how it works? Id figure you need a way to remove the expended capacitors too tho, using heaters to destroy them or something? How would ya even automate that...

[Upgrade bugs]

3 minutes ago, Entity said:

This would totally justify the excessive infinite energy generators I've been working on.   It'd also make me completely immune to damage and turn shields into the single most OP thing right after said infinite energy generator.

 

Wait, whats this about an infinite energy generator?  mind sharing? Ive no idea what your talking about, is there a way to wirelessly transmit energy maybe?

[Projectile upgrade count 3 +shotgun & digging3 +short laser.]

Well you could if you had a sticky beam~

[Add a seperate Logic Circuit builder]

6 minutes ago, Lurkily said:

But you don't need a brain for that.  just put a single NOT block on each turret; detection event is "fire guns".  If that's NOT active, turn left.  That's compact enough for a turret, and can go behind a splitter to avoid crosstalk.

(Or bounce right when it is active, however you want to do it.)

When I mention scripting, it's because scripting is something the community largely seems to reject in their hopes for this game, thinking it will diminish it instead of expanding it.

Hmm, I dont? I'll try it then, but maybe a bit more in depth example would work. Admittedly maybe Ive taken a simple problem and made it complicated but as far as I know the the motorized henge needs something to tell it when to turn left... but Ill try maybe linking it to one of the sensors instead. Hmmmm~

[Upgrade bugs]

8 minutes ago, Lurkily said:

Since only one of those nested shields would be taking damage at a time, it would diminish the energy hit you took in using multiple shields, as long as you overlapped them well.

I think there is currently enough advantage in careful nesting of shields that we don't need to further encourage it.

If Shields didnt have a "max hp" and instead, just ran off energy, then you wouldnt need to overlap shields. Anytime any of the shields took a hit, it'd instead drain your energy. Thus the shields you have wouldnt go down until you ran out of energy, but theyd all go down together.

[Projectile upgrade count 3 +shotgun & digging3 +short laser.]

Would be an alternative to magnets, but also being able to move things that arent metalic.

Could also be used to trap enemies maybe, hold them in place for automated turrets to easier lock on to it.

What I was going to use it for was a little drone capable of moving things around. Tractor beams wouldnt really care about mass for instance, unlike magnets.

Would also be cool for perhaps using in the makings of a rail gun. Could maybe use one to move around a magnet to suck up enemies, then detonate dynamite or trigger a heater to destroy them all.

Plus, tractor beams are cool. Why not? :p

[Add a seperate Logic Circuit builder]

31 minutes ago, Lurkily said:

But the brain has to communicate BACK to every turret.  And it has to give DIFFERENT commands to every turret.  The brain can't just say 'turn left' without talking to all turrets.  It has to say "Turret one, turn left."  That means the brain has to contain a separate set of logic for turret one.

Actually I dont see why it couldnt. Youd just need the turrets to overide some of what the brain says. Thinking about it a little more, I could say just have the brains telling all the turrets to turn left say. And then the turret itself would have some information that "if we see an enemy in our crosshairs, aim right" to over-ride the brains constant "turn left" command. Would the turrets be able to override like that? Then I just need to find a way that the turrets know WHICH sensor is sensing an enemy so they know which turret needs to fire and which does not. >.> Like a way to connect guns just to one turret. Maybe each sensor could be specific to each turret and each gun for that sensor~

Quote

and we're talking about scripting, now.

Oh, sorry, do we have a scripting forum? Itd be nice to have a place to talk specifically about this stuff... sorry again.

[Math blocks]

ooooo, I think I understand it a bit better then. Thanks for clarifying.

[Upgrade bugs]

Quote

 I would appreciate you avoid dumping me into whichever category of people you want to despise and assume things that are flat out wrong, just because it lets you end your paragraph with a nice ad hominem attack to make yourself feel like a true slayer of evil. You are no slayer of evil, I am no evil monster, we both are humans and we can talk without insulting each other. Well! Ideally, that is.

Didn't say I despised ya, just that I didnt appreciate the way you phrased things as if it was dismissive and had off handed comments. Just because I give out a scratch for it doesnt mean I want your head on a pike after all. :p

We're still cool, I hope? Anyway~

Quote

22 is 12 higher than 10, so it is a 120% increase, not 20% as you stated. 

Oops, my keyboard isnt the best and sometimes the numbers dont get pushed through or something. Or maybe I brainfarted, but yea. If my math looks wrong its probably a typo that slipped past my ocd or I missed it when going back to double check. I usually write up something as a first draft, then look back over it for typos or misspellings and other incorrections. Never claimed to be perfect tho :p The main point is I think the minigun + efficiency upgrades should operate different than it does rather than just accepting it and not thinking critically about it. The devs have said countless times theyre working on game balance and that it isnt perfect yet, this is me suggesting they change how efficiency works.

Like I said above, it would mean overall that upgrades like minigun would be much less energy intensive, but that it also wouldn't allow anymore for 0 energy weapons. Both would be good as far as game balance is concerned. In fact if it was up to me, I think the 80% efficiency is overpowered. If anything Id lower it to like, 75%. That at least would match other upgrades like damage and fire rate etc. Could increase the 20% efficiency to 25% or 50% to compensate some perhaps as well, since I feel its on the weak side.

Quote

Shields are broken levels of overpowered considering...

I agree. The shields could use a rework as well, but so can the current energy system. Personally the way I'd have done shields is they should take less energy to be "on", say 5 or 10. But when they take hits it drains more energy based on the power of the shot it absorbed. If it takes many hits, your energy reserves should also take a hit. However if they do that the shields shouldnt fail UNTIL you run out of energy, then they go down for a bit like they do currently to give your energy reserves a chance to build back up and so that you can hopefully still use weaponry and such or run away. Following that logic, bigger shields would just take more energy to be "on", cover a wider area, and have bigger blocks. say 2x2 and 3x3. Id also say any enemy that moves "inside" the shield can then attack you normally.

On the separate but related topic, I believe they should have some simple self contained generators like they do now, but they ALSO should have large generators with 0 energy capacity that generates a lot more energy than other ones, sort of the opposite of the energy capacitors, while at the same time giving more reason to use these capacitors.  These new gennys might also generate heat over time that would need to be contended with. Could have two of them side by side around a vent and a temperature logic made specifically for cooling them. *nods* Regardless, energy generates heat, and in space its supposed to be difficult to vent heat, so it makes practical and gaming sense to me. Its confusing that they dont have options for more sophisticated and indepth energy options.

But thats what Im suggesting, an option, options are good. By definition, if you dont like the option then dont use it, much like you dont use energy intensive weapons or shielding. If you dont need it then dont use it, it doesnt "hurt" you by being in the game just like springs dont hurt me, its just an option I dont use. But for others, that option would be very helpful, so maybe be more considerate of others? Sure, CURRENTLY they're not required, but what about when we get bosses and other stronger enemies or more intensive combat? Maybe later it could be necessary? Why should we just stick our heads in the sand?

My argument is more about the lack of options and the poor game balance these little effects cascade into. For example you have an over burdened energy system, and a super light underused fuel system that rarely needs more than a couple fuel tanks. Thats not well balanced either ya know? Maybe we can have some thrusters that used energy, or some weapons that use fuel, ya know? Maybe we could get some upgrades for our actual ship and not just the weapons, stuff like efficiency for shields or more power for thrusters.

In the end, just shrugging your shoulders and saying "it is the way it is and thats the way it always has been and always will be" is the wrong attitude for an early access game. Maybe its unfair but that was the impression I was getting from your earlier statement and over all attitude. Sorry if I misinterpreted things.

[Projectile upgrade count 3 +shotgun & digging3 +short laser.]

So what your saying is we need to have a sticky laser upgrade option then? Hmmmmmm~

[Add a seperate Logic Circuit builder]

9 hours ago, Lurkily said:

No; I believe you have to use separate inputs and outputs for both, and split the logic. 

In this case, the brain can still hear both turrets, so it can't command them separately unless the turrets have unique signals, and they brain handles them with separate logic. 

The circuit would have the sane problem.  It needs to control them separately,  so it needs to "think" about them separately.

Which basically translates into the problem only being solved with a unique set of 3 logic circuits for each individual turret, meaning a much bigger "brain" or that each turret would be more vulnerable and less streamlined with all their circuits as part of the turret itself. Both of which arent pretty solutions... which is why I was saying it'd be nice if the turrets could communicate to the brain but not to other turrets, like a wireless signal in but not out or something to that degree, isolated circuits.

[Deleting drone save files within the game.]

8 hours ago, Ookami-sama said:

There is a delete button.

No confirmation on deleting though.

I know theres a delete button for the drones on the main screen, but you see the "floppy disk" icon there to the right next to the steam upload button? Theres no way to delete those backup saves in the game without going to wherever you saved them at. I always make backups because Im OCD

But yes there should also be a confirmation screen for the trash icon on the simple screen.

[Inertial dampeners]

6 hours ago, Lurkily said:

There are a lot of solutions to coherence through creative construction, such as 'zippering' or 'lacing' children so that the bottom pulls on the top and vice versa

Uhm, noob question coming. What is zippering and how do I do it?

6 hours ago, Micha said:

Having a stable core skeleton is something I have to try sometime.

 

'nother noob question coming. Have you tried just making the part connections a little stronger? >.>

 

[Math blocks]

7 hours ago, Lurkily said:

So I like logic they way it is, but they idea of analog readings and math keeps coming up. In asides and whispers, perhaps worried that it'll be shot down as embarrassingly out of character with Nimbatus.  I don't think I'd recommend it, but I have a concept on how to implement it. 

This would be a second class of logic blocks - math blocks.  Only an output block would cross that divide, able to output a key or tag based on whether a variable is ==, !=, > or <.

Sensors would have an option to output a variable, as well as ranged key/tag options. (Such as we use now.) Addition blocks could accept two variables and output a third, along with division, subtraction, multiplication, etc.  Thus you could do things like produce decaying averages of sensor readings, or whatever else you like. 

I don't think I'll recommend this, though.  I think solutions to these problems largely exist in basic logic, and that introducing math obsoletes many creative solutions.  Like code, I think mathematical expertise would become a cost-of-entry for complex and efficient builds.  

Right now, a smart novice or an experienced idiot can both work up to very complex behavior with very simple basic tools, and I think that is critical. 

Yea Im not sure I understood that at all. How would this help me build independant functional turrets?

[Shield full/empty event]

5 hours ago, Entity said:

really? I posted a more detailed feature request ages ago and this post somehow gets 7 votes?

 

Sorry Im new, but also active! I didnt see yours before, only read the newer posts on the forum, theres a lot of posts and cant be expected to read them all right? Or maybe Im lazy~

[Early Access Roadmap]

If you do promise a timeline, in general its good to do a few things.

1= Over-estimate the time to give yourself some wiggle room. If you think it will take a month, say two months. If its done earlier, great!

2= Be transparent. If something happens which may extend the deadline just tell people about it as far ahead of time as possible. Did we say two months? Well it looks like it might be 3. Sorry bout that but we ran across some bugs that need crushing.

3= Avoid over promising things. That way if there's more features than was earlier announced, its seen as a little bit extra instead of a little bit less.

 

Otherwise Im a very patient person, you guys take as long as you need. Thanks for giving us a heads up at all and a peek behind the curtain as far as the roadmap is concerned. The devs here seem like pretty cool people and I'm glad to have stumbled into Nimbatus along with its awesome community.

[Add a seperate Logic Circuit builder]

29 minutes ago, Lurkily said:

If You need to control three turrets, you need three circuits because you need three outputs that do not crosstalk with other turrets. 

I think what you're really looking for is something that can take a turret1, turret2, or turret3 "enemy left" input and convert it to a "turn left" output for each of those individual turrets to use, without actually assigning all three inputs or outputs.   I think it represents a more foundational change than I is obvious from the post.

Not exactly, I can give you the file if you want to look at it as its a better example of what I was talking about. Anyway Ill make a picture for ya.

Currently this is my sort of setup, a brain in the middle sending signals to each turret. This works well enough but the signals cross contaminate each other, meaning if the turret on the left senses something, both turrets will fire . They dont have a unique tag like I was saying, just three basic commands. A NOT gate that says if a turret is not firing, the auto turrets should turn left. An AND gate that says if it gets a signal from the left and right sensors, to turn right, and an OR gate that says if it gets a signal from either sensor to fire. 

What I wanted to do was to put a logic splitter that would cut it off from signals, and then behind that put a wireless signal so it could still "hear" the brain without "hearing" the other turrets. Heres another picture.

 

Unfortunately, its either an all or none situation it seems, with the logic splitter it fails to work at all, no turning, no firing, etc, and with the wireless receiver it works the same as before without having either of those things. It'd be great if there was a logic part that could separate the noise and isolate signals without us having to manually do it and make entirely unique individual circuits for each thing.

Unless... there is a way and Im just not getting it? It just seems there should be more options for isolating logic and stuff.

[Projectile upgrade count 3 +shotgun & digging3 +short laser.]

No problem, but I did remember something about lasers I tried to do but didnt work. See I wanted to make a "tractor beam" sort of long laser, I put damage downgrade on it so it wouldnt kill things I was lasering, then I put "push laser" and "pull laser" hoping that it would grab it and hold it in place. Instead it seems only the first took effect, either being a push laser or a pull laser. Was pretty dashed afterward honestly, would really appreciate more of these effects to combine in interesting ways~

Maybe Ill copy paste this in the first post actually.

[Add a seperate Logic Circuit builder]

Yea but I think you're missing the QoL aspect, as well as the clutter aspect. Making more criteria means more logic circuits than youd need for instance. I wanted to make all my turrets fully independant at first right? That would mean either A= I need a logic splitter that isolates stuff which would be 1 logic part. Or I need to make 3 new logic parts with "turret a" and "turret b" and "turret c" and "turret d" tags, meaning 12 new logic parts at 2x1 each for the equivalent of 6 generators worth of room? Not sure why youd argue against more logic options that would be easy to implement tho~

Sure its possible, but it's also possible to do things better and more efficiently too~ why wouldnt we try? thats the point of the suggestions in the forum after all right.

[Did you know?]

If you use a magnet and bring back those crashed tech looking parts it gives you 25 gold? And if you bring back the treasure chests you get 25 rubies.

I know those arent their proper names but gold, rubies and sapphires are easier for me to remember. Feel free to add other tidbits of info you might have found out and want to share.

Also just because Im rather proud of it, Im  going to share my ship that ive been working on the last couple days. If you try it let me know what you think. it does basically everything. Only thing I havent done yet is add a perma-magnet to keep it from wobbling as much~ ive got the OCDs

 

 

 

 

Red vs Blue 2.drn

[Rigid strut part]

1 hour ago, Lurkily said:

and stop putting shields right on top of each other. 

Nuuuu not my shields!

[Projectile upgrade count 3 +shotgun & digging3 +short laser.]

Yus it does! Only briefly tho. 

5 hours ago, unmog said:

Im pretty sure theres other upgrades + weapon combos that suffer from this as well, for instance the short laser with digging3 is still limited to 7 even tho it should be higher.

There wasn't much more to say about it than that. Pretty easy to miss tho if someone just glanced over it, I guess Ill give it its own line at least.

[Projectile upgrade count 3 +shotgun & digging3 +short laser.]

Apparently, the poor shotgun cant fully take advantage of one of the best weapon upgrades in the game, multishot, which is sort of ironic really since that's supposed to be what shotguns are good at. The stat block says its limited to 10. If there IS a hard cap of 10 however I suggest removing it or at least raising it to 30 or something. A shotgun with JUST projectile3 would have 16 pellets compared to the normal 4 it gets. If you put on all 3 it would be as high as 28. Basically this handicap which is limited to only the shotgun and regarding the strongest upgrade in the game in terms of damage severely handicaps it in terms of effectiveness, and would be easy to fix.

Im pretty sure theres other upgrades + weapon combos that suffer from this as well, for instance the short laser with digging3 is still limited to 7 even tho it should be higher.  Speaking of lasers, I also wanted to make a "tractor beam" sort of long laser. I put damage downgrade on it so it wouldnt kill things I was lasering, then I put "push laser" and "pull laser" hoping that it would grab things and hold it in place. Instead it seems only the first took effect, either being a push laser or a pull laser. Honestly I was pretty dashed afterward,  and would have really appreciated more of these effects to combine in interesting ways~

 

Addendum

 

After some ocd and persistence I managed to take a good picture of the amount of projectiles. I needed to use multishot along with the projectile lifetime upgrade and shootforce downgrade to get an accurate picture, along with some persistence, but I managed to get this picture that confirms the upper limit is 10 and it isnt just a visual bug.