#savetherogues

[thivid08]

With christmas coming tomorrow, I would like to make a tribute to all the rogue males, wanderers, and dodomingos who have been brutally murdered over the year. The rogues are always told to be evil, dangerous nichelings, and they get all the hate when they show up. All they want is love and a family, but they get tracked down and killed at their homes. This also goes to all the orphaned bearyenas out there. This holiday season, lets all let those poor souls live happy, and calm lives, so they dont suffer like the rest of their kind.(This is a challenge by the way)

On the other hand, lets see who can make the most interesting holiday event in their game!!!

[Goggles-kun]

propaganda for you

[Broken]

I really only attack rouge males after they make my whole tribe pregnant, and baby bearynas, I always invite them in. And, I never attack wanderers and had to kill only 1 dodomingo because I only had one tribe mate and they were starving.

[Jojo]

#roguemaleslivesmatter

[Spacestar TheThundersuncat]

I can't stand them, but I once adopted this guy in a no mutations challenge.

Pretty cute. I think I found his long lost baby brother, too.

That tribe had really rare starters . Anyway, mom was really old and dad somewhere else, so he helped raise the two, always near.

He propably empathized with the younger, both being the worse child and unable to gather much. Since the red guy was about to drop dead, he always stayed near the rogue, while his brother founded a purr fish line. 

[georgie]

am i the only one who finds this topic weird considering they are literally saying that rapists aren't bad

[Spacestar TheThundersuncat]

44 minutes ago, heyitsgeorgie said:

am i the only one who finds this topic weird considering they are literally saying that rapists aren't bad

Kind of. The adopted one never really got near a non-pregnant female, so I don't consider him one for roleplaying purposes only. The theme seems to be the more roleplay like 'no one was born bad so show them kindness once a year'. In reality, is it better to attempt to reform, or just punish? What if the first is more effective, making them less likely to? Is it not moral to want to reduce overall suffering? 

Still, I don't know if nichelings pair bond at all or just mate with everything. Certainly, the player forces matches on them all the time. How is that not allowing rape? How do you judge rape if nichelings have no thoughts, feelings or preferences? That's my main issue with rogue males, that there is just no framework to evaluate their actions in. Maybe they're like cats, sometimes chosing really, really ugly and sick mates. Maybe they are raping ducks on crack. How would we know? How do you judge rape in a framework with no concept of consent? 

Further, since the other options are murder, castration (I'm pretty sure that's against human rights) and switching their gender (welcome, gender disphoria?) there just is no good option. Yet, the game needs that sort of challenge. I'm pretty sure the random mutation branch (bad ones included) could have fixed the moral issue, but it made the game so bad, many considered it unplayable. Rogue males or no rogue males, whether present or not, they're about the most annoying thing about this game. I'd love them removed. Yet, the only replacement is adding random bad mutations. No idea if people would like that, judging by the failed first attempt. Maybe a possible off-switch would help all parties at least a little. Low effort, story tribes don't need the challenge and parents could remove it for less dubious content. 

[georgie]

2 hours ago, RandomWanderer said:

Kind of. The adopted one never really got near a non-pregnant female, so I don't consider him one for roleplaying purposes only. The theme seems to be the more roleplay like 'no one was born bad so show them kindness once a year'. In reality, is it better to attempt to reform, or just punish? What if the first is more effective, making them less likely to? Is it not moral to want to reduce overall suffering? 

Still, I don't know if nichelings pair bond at all or just mate with everything. Certainly, the player forces matches on them all the time. How is that not allowing rape? How do you judge rape if nichelings have no thoughts, feelings or preferences? That's my main issue with rogue males, that there is just no framework to evaluate their actions in. Maybe they're like cats, sometimes chosing really, really ugly and sick mates. Maybe they are raping ducks on crack. How would we know? How do you judge rape in a framework with no concept of consent? 

Further, since the other options are murder, castration (I'm pretty sure that's against human rights) and switching their gender (welcome, gender disphoria?) there just is no good option. Yet, the game needs that sort of challenge. I'm pretty sure the random mutation branch (bad ones included) could have fixed the moral issue, but it made the game so bad, many considered it unplayable. Rogue males or no rogue males, whether present or not, they're about the most annoying thing about this game. I'd love them removed. Yet, the only replacement is adding random bad mutations. No idea if people would like that, judging by the failed first attempt. Maybe a possible off-switch would help all parties at least a little. Low effort, story tribes don't need the challenge and parents could remove it for less dubious content. 

I agree on the front of if, for roleplay purposes, the rogue male did nothing wrong and lived a happy life so therefore he is not looked down upon, but just in general rogue males are, in their simplest form, nicheling rapists, and people saying they do not deserve to be seen as bad makes me really annoyed.

the thing with you forcing nichelings to mate is an interesting argument, though. my say is that most people roleplay their nichelings growing to love eachother, but if a match is forced for the purposes of survival, im ok with that because its not plainly "a nicheling just raped one of your nichelings" and it is a clickable option you trigger, so technically it isn't one nicheling deciding to rape the other.

that isn't even my point, I dont even mind rogue males existing, I just dont like the way some people treat them nicely. if a specific rogue male never breeds with your nichelings and lives a happy life, maybe even having a female breed with it if they become close, im ok with that because that specific rogue male is not a rapist in your tribe and did not rape anyone; what I dislike is rogue males in general being seen as fine, because that is saying rapists are ok, which they are not. not in any way, shape or form is rape ok.

now some people may say, for example, a rogue male isn't raping your females and just seducing them and then mating with them, but that makes no sense. your female can be attacking the rogue male, but still, he makes her pregnant. it is 100% rape, to clear that up.

what I think might be happening is that it is not actually stated "rouge males= rapists" anywhere, and children are not aware of what rape actually is, and that is what rogue males do, or maybe children have never learnt about rape at all, so they think this is ok and say they are fine. there are, to me, two solutions:

-remove rogue males. it would remove a large challenge of the game, and balancing may need to be done, but removing them entirely would be a quick fix. however, people would still remember them, so the problem hasn't been completely solved.

-add a notification when the game starts. something along the lines of "note: animals will appear in this game called rogue males, and they are nicheling rapists with bad genes, made to further challenge the player. if you are unaware of what rape is, ask your parents now, and they can tell you or disable them in the settings menu." and add a way to disable them. I think this is the best way to handle rouge males.

I do love this game, but the rogue males are one of the few things I dislike about this game. you can tell the devs (who I absolutely love and have made my favourite game of all time) have implemented rogue males not considering their demographic, and avoided explicitly using the word "rape" to avoid complications, leading to a community with some people who think creatures, that are rapists, are ok. in my eyes that is kind of immature and I hope it is fixed.

[Jojo]

4 hours ago, heyitsgeorgie said:

I agree on the front of if, for roleplay purposes, the rogue male did nothing wrong and lived a happy life so therefore he is not looked down upon, but just in general rogue males are, in their simplest form, nicheling rapists, and people saying they do not deserve to be seen as bad makes me really annoyed.

the thing with you forcing nichelings to mate is an interesting argument, though. my say is that most people roleplay their nichelings growing to love eachother, but if a match is forced for the purposes of survival, im ok with that because its not plainly "a nicheling just raped one of your nichelings" and it is a clickable option you trigger, so technically it isn't one nicheling deciding to rape the other.

that isn't even my point, I dont even mind rogue males existing, I just dont like the way some people treat them nicely. if a specific rogue male never breeds with your nichelings and lives a happy life, maybe even having a female breed with it if they become close, im ok with that because that specific rogue male is not a rapist in your tribe and did not rape anyone; what I dislike is rogue males in general being seen as fine, because that is saying rapists are ok, which they are not. not in any way, shape or form is rape ok.

now some people may say, for example, a rogue male isn't raping your females and just seducing them and then mating with them, but that makes no sense. your female can be attacking the rogue male, but still, he makes her pregnant. it is 100% rape, to clear that up.

what I think might be happening is that it is not actually stated "rouge males= rapists" anywhere, and children are not aware of what rape actually is, and that is what rogue males do, or maybe children have never learnt about rape at all, so they think this is ok and say they are fine. there are, to me, two solutions:

-remove rogue males. it would remove a large challenge of the game, and balancing may need to be done, but removing them entirely would be a quick fix. however, people would still remember them, so the problem hasn't been completely solved.

-add a notification when the game starts. something along the lines of "note: animals will appear in this game called rogue males, and they are nicheling rapists with bad genes, made to further challenge the player. if you are unaware of what rape is, ask your parents now, and they can tell you or disable them in the settings menu." and add a way to disable them. I think this is the best way to handle rouge males.

I do love this game, but the rogue males are one of the few things I dislike about this game. you can tell the devs (who I absolutely love and have made my favourite game of all time) have implemented rogue males not considering their demographic, and avoided explicitly using the word "rape" to avoid complications, leading to a community with some people who think creatures, that are rapists, are ok. in my eyes that is kind of immature and I hope it is fixed.

I think you are putting way to many human emotions into this. Animals don't rape. They just want to pass on their genetic heritage. They run on instinct. They don't have morals or consent. They aren't good or evil. They just want to survive and pass on their genes. That is what they do. Males and females.

When the notification about a rogue male breading with a female in game shows up it says 'a female bread with a rogue male' so technically the rogue males do nothing.

"But my female attacked the rogue and he still did it" she wanted to test his strength. He proved that he was strong enough/ persistent enough and therefore qualified to pass on his genes. (Cats do that from time to time. In many species the males have to prove themselves)

Yes rape is bad but there is no rape in Niche. Yes the descision is forced on the player but just we force everything on the Nichelings. Also the player isn't the Nichelings. Humans don't understand the bare need for genetic survival. Nichelings are animals. They just want to pass on their genes and when there isn't a good made chosen for them they choose themselves.

No one goes and looks at cats mating and says "wow that she-cat was totally raped and is now traumatized for the rest of their life". Because she isn't. Animals aren't traumatized by this. They don't judge. They don't hold grudges. They move on always trying to do the best with what they've got.

So I highly disagree with you saying that rogue males symbol rape. They symbol a part of nature, they symbol something we can't control, we can't control nature and imposing our human standards on it will do nothing but harm. Uncontrolled mating is a part of nature, rape isn't.